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	<title>Comments for Eric DeLabar</title>
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	<link>http://www.ericdelabar.com</link>
	<description>Web 2.0 from a Web Purist and J2EE Developer</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 11:04:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on Coding Your Fingers Off - Hand Tools, Power Tools, and Programmers by Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.ericdelabar.com/2008/06/coding-your-fingers-off.html#comment-1494</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 23:38:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ericdelabar.com/?p=68#comment-1494</guid>
		<description>Interesting metaphor.  As a die-hard emacs user, I also enjoyed the conflicting metaphor:

http://www.team.net/mjb/hawg.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting metaphor.  As a die-hard emacs user, I also enjoyed the conflicting metaphor:&nbsp;<a href="http://www.team.net/mjb/hawg.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.team.net/mjb/hawg.html</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Hammering Screws: Programmers and Tool Blindness by me</title>
		<link>http://www.ericdelabar.com/2008/06/hammering-screws.html#comment-1466</link>
		<dc:creator>me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 04:20:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ericdelabar.com/?p=71#comment-1466</guid>
		<description>Thing i use in eclipse every day:
-Auto-Build &#38; run our webserver &#38; build-path management [although build-paths are a tedious chore]

-ctrl-click on a varible or type to see the code automatically and not have to go through tons of directory hunting for it.  This is a huge timesaver.

-ctrl-shift-t / ctrl-shift-r are similar to the ctrl-click

-Auto-complete/Inline-documentation can be an enormous timesaver and you don't find it in non-ide type editors like textmate.

-Inline error &#38; warning higlighter &#38; problem's browser.  If I make a mistake, it's highlighted right away. It of course doesn't catch all problems, but it catches a lot of the small goofups that can really consume time when you forgot that semi-colon or something similar and have to go through another save-build-run-wait-wait-wait-error to have the problem blow up in your face.
-A full featured debugger.
-Litter your code with TODO comments and you have an automatic todo list! 
- The code outline can be useful at times (although textmate has this one)
- The easy to use multi-directory/file diffing tools
- The built in scm management tools
--Occasionally, I also use the save history tools built in for more granular reverting.
- And the basic features you mentioned.

There are several features that I would use in eclipse, but don't work with our particular software setup (we use the obscure resin server w/ struts 1.1 vs. tomcat w/ spring for example, which remove a bunch of eclipse feature ), or there are better tools to deal with the specific part, like cssedit2 for css editing.

We don't use the profiler since we don't really have speed problems with our web apps.

The only really bad thing about eclipse is it's heavyweight nature.  If eclipse wasn't memory and processor intensive and was developed with a better gui, would you really care about using eclipse? No!  It would completely pure awesome.  Are there new features you can use to improve it? Of course!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thing i use in eclipse every day:<br />
-Auto-Build <span class="amp">&amp;</span> run our webserver <span class="amp">&amp;</span> build-path management [although build-paths are a tedious chore]</p>
<p>-ctrl-click on a varible or type to see the code automatically and not have to go through tons of directory hunting for it.  This is a huge timesaver.</p>
<p>-ctrl-shift-t / ctrl-shift-r are similar to the ctrl-click</p>
<p>-Auto-complete/Inline-documentation can be an enormous timesaver and you don&#8217;t find it in non-ide type editors like textmate.</p>
<p>-Inline error <span class="amp">&amp;</span> warning higlighter <span class="amp">&amp;</span> problem&#8217;s browser.  If I make a mistake, it&#8217;s highlighted right away. It of course doesn&#8217;t catch all problems, but it catches a lot of the small goofups that can really consume time when you forgot that semi-colon or something similar and have to go through another save-build-run-wait-wait-wait-error to have the problem blow up in your face.<br />
-A full featured debugger.<br />
-Litter your code with <span class="caps">TODO</span> comments and you have an automatic todo list!<br />
- The code outline can be useful at times (although textmate has this one)<br />
- The easy to use multi-directory/file diffing tools<br />
- The built in scm management tools&thinsp;&#8212;&thinsp;Occasionally, I also use the save history tools built in for more granular reverting.<br />
- And the basic features you mentioned.</p>
<p>There are several features that I would use in eclipse, but don&#8217;t work with our particular software setup (we use the obscure resin server w/ struts 1.1 vs. tomcat w/ spring for example, which remove a bunch of eclipse feature ), or there are better tools to deal with the specific part, like cssedit2 for css editing.</p>
<p>We don&#8217;t use the profiler since we don&#8217;t really have speed problems with our web apps.</p>
<p>The only really bad thing about eclipse is it&#8217;s heavyweight nature.  If eclipse wasn&#8217;t memory and processor intensive and was developed with a better gui, would you really care about using eclipse? No!  It would completely pure awesome.  Are there new features you can use to improve it? Of&nbsp;course!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Hammering Screws: Programmers and Tool Blindness by Jim Bastard</title>
		<link>http://www.ericdelabar.com/2008/06/hammering-screws.html#comment-1294</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Bastard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 10:34:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ericdelabar.com/?p=71#comment-1294</guid>
		<description>Eclipse takes up a monster amount of memory. I've fallen back to using Dreamweaver just because its relatively lightweight and has intellisense for the DOM.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eclipse takes up a monster amount of memory. I&#8217;ve fallen back to using Dreamweaver just because its relatively lightweight and has intellisense for the&nbsp;<span class="caps">DOM</span>.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Hammering Screws: Programmers and Tool Blindness by Roosevelt</title>
		<link>http://www.ericdelabar.com/2008/06/hammering-screws.html#comment-1286</link>
		<dc:creator>Roosevelt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:56:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ericdelabar.com/?p=71#comment-1286</guid>
		<description>I've always used the claw hammer VS pneumatic nailer analogy instead, but the point is still there. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve always used the claw hammer <span class="caps">VS</span> pneumatic nailer analogy instead, but the point is still there.&nbsp;:)</p>
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		<title>Comment on Coding Your Fingers Off - Hand Tools, Power Tools, and Programmers by admin</title>
		<link>http://www.ericdelabar.com/2008/06/coding-your-fingers-off.html#comment-1283</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 11:50:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ericdelabar.com/?p=68#comment-1283</guid>
		<description>@Abhijeet,

I suppose my treatment of Eclipse is a little rash, but recently it has not been fitting very well in my programming tool belt.  If you are programming with java there is no doubt in my mind that you should have some sort of IDE, it just makes life easier, and the language practically requires it for its current design paradigms.  (Generate getters and setters saves me &lt;strong&gt;hours&lt;/strong&gt;!)  

Like you said it is a case of the right tool for the right job, and at least in my recent experience with Eclipse, it's feeling a little more like &lt;a href="http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=338564" rel="nofollow"&gt;this tool&lt;/a&gt; (does everything but is it &lt;strong&gt;really&lt;/strong&gt; that useful?) than &lt;a href="http://www.wengerna.com/browse/product.jsp?prod_id=20&#038;cat_id=1&#038;cat_name=Knives&#038;sub_cat_id=18" rel="nofollow"&gt;this one&lt;/a&gt; (everything you really need &lt;strong&gt;and&lt;/strong&gt; it still fits in your pocket!) Personally, I'm craving something a little simpler for a while, I'm not saying I'm going to go mountain man and only develop with vi, but it is still possible to be an effective developer without using a full IDE.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Abhijeet,</p>
<p>I suppose my treatment of Eclipse is a little rash, but recently it has not been fitting very well in my programming tool belt.  If you are programming with java there is no doubt in my mind that you should have some sort of <span class="caps">IDE</span>, it just makes life easier, and the language practically requires it for its current design paradigms.  (Generate getters and setters saves me <strong>hours</strong>!)  </p>
<p>Like you said it is a case of the right tool for the right job, and at least in my recent experience with Eclipse, it&#8217;s feeling a little more like <a href="http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=338564" rel="nofollow">this tool</a> (does everything but is it <strong>really</strong> that useful?) than <a href="http://www.wengerna.com/browse/product.jsp?prod_id=20&#038;cat_id=1&#038;cat_name=Knives&#038;sub_cat_id=18" rel="nofollow">this one</a> (everything you really need <strong>and</strong> it still fits in your pocket!) Personally, I&#8217;m craving something a little simpler for a while, I&#8217;m not saying I&#8217;m going to go mountain man and only develop with vi, but it is still possible to be an effective developer without using a full&nbsp;<span class="caps">IDE</span>.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Coding Your Fingers Off - Hand Tools, Power Tools, and Programmers by Abhijeet</title>
		<link>http://www.ericdelabar.com/2008/06/coding-your-fingers-off.html#comment-1282</link>
		<dc:creator>Abhijeet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 11:27:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ericdelabar.com/?p=68#comment-1282</guid>
		<description>I agree with you that using the shell and command line tools to do things is a great way to learn. But uninstalling Eclipse isn't going to help. On the contrary, its going to slow me (and you?) down a LOT. I can't imagine loading .java files one after other just to trace the flow. Whats wrong with F3? Its more like ... right tool for the right job.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you that using the shell and command line tools to do things is a great way to learn. But uninstalling Eclipse isn&#8217;t going to help. On the contrary, its going to slow me (and you?) down a <span class="caps">LOT</span>. I can&#8217;t imagine loading .java files one after other just to trace the flow. Whats wrong with F3? Its more like &#8230; right tool for the right&nbsp;job.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Coding Your Fingers Off - Hand Tools, Power Tools, and Programmers by admin</title>
		<link>http://www.ericdelabar.com/2008/06/coding-your-fingers-off.html#comment-1281</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 17:45:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ericdelabar.com/?p=68#comment-1281</guid>
		<description>@James,

Ouch. ;) 

Why do you assume that because I was a "kid" when Home Improvement was on I am not an experienced developer?  I grew up on the web and writing software.  While I may only have 4-years post-college experience I've been doing web development professionally for 12, which in this industry's case is damn near forever.

But pontificating aside, I might have lost part of my point, which thankfully you have pointed out.  Norm, or Al in my example, can and should use power tools, since he has the experience and understanding of the medium in general to improve his own efficiency.

Just as your experience in CE makes you a better programmer, the experience I'm advocating in "IT" can do the same for web programmers.  If these kids don't know how a network really works how can we ever expect to write a web application.  And by "kids" I mean the ones that wrote their first "hello world" in college, not the ones that installed linux on their parent's PC in the 8th grade.

As far as Eclipse goes, I'll allow it back on my laptop when it starts be useful with Maven.  Until then it's TextMate and a terminal for me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@James,</p>
<p>Ouch. ;) </p>
<p>Why do you assume that because I was a &#8220;kid&#8221; when Home Improvement was on I am not an experienced developer?  I grew up on the web and writing software.  While I may only have 4-years post-college experience I&#8217;ve been doing web development professionally for 12, which in this industry&#8217;s case is damn near forever.</p>
<p>But pontificating aside, I might have lost part of my point, which thankfully you have pointed out.  Norm, or Al in my example, can and should use power tools, since he has the experience and understanding of the medium in general to improve his own efficiency.</p>
<p>Just as your experience in <span class="caps">CE</span> makes you a better programmer, the experience I&#8217;m advocating in &#8220;<span class="caps">IT</span>&#8221; can do the same for web programmers.  If these kids don&#8217;t know how a network really works how can we ever expect to write a web application.  And by &#8220;kids&#8221; I mean the ones that wrote their first &#8220;hello world&#8221; in college, not the ones that installed linux on their parent&#8217;s <span class="caps">PC</span> in the 8th grade.</p>
<p>As far as Eclipse goes, I&#8217;ll allow it back on my laptop when it starts be useful with Maven.  Until then it&#8217;s TextMate and a terminal for&nbsp;me.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Coding Your Fingers Off - Hand Tools, Power Tools, and Programmers by James E. Ervin</title>
		<link>http://www.ericdelabar.com/2008/06/coding-your-fingers-off.html#comment-1280</link>
		<dc:creator>James E. Ervin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 15:16:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ericdelabar.com/?p=68#comment-1280</guid>
		<description>Don't worry about uninstalling Eclipse, it will be there for you when you grow up kid. ;) 

First off I want to preface my comments, you were a kid when Home Improvement was on the air and yet you are pontificating like an experienced developer??  Whew, I need a moment to sit down and catch my breath, I don't like where that is going.

Still I don't disagree with your general point.  I think it would be better stated as your best power tool is still the one between your ears and not on your desktop.  The problem is not the power tool per se, the trouble is that there are people now that do not understand the reason for the power tool.  I agree with you that people starting out need to get it from the basic level.  I still think that my training as a Computer Engineer serves me well writing software.  I started out with logic design, chip design, and began programming from the assembly language level up.  This education gave me an understanding of how computers actually work and then my exposure to various Unix distributions showed me how an operating system should work.  Perhaps the way forward is to stop hiring CS grads?? *Duck*

In defense of the power tool, Home Improvement was a good comedy, but you are perhaps too young to remember what it was based on.  Home Improvement really was a parody of the old "This Old House" program on PBS.  Tim is Bob Villa and Al is Norm.  The reason why I mention this is that if you ever watch Norm's "New Yankee Workshop" on PBS you will notice two distinct things.  First, Norm is an extremely skilled craftsman.  Two, Norm, the real life Al, uses all kinds of Power Tools.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t worry about uninstalling Eclipse, it will be there for you when you grow up kid. ;) </p>
<p>First off I want to preface my comments, you were a kid when Home Improvement was on the air and yet you are pontificating like an experienced developer??  Whew, I need a moment to sit down and catch my breath, I don&#8217;t like where that is going.</p>
<p>Still I don&#8217;t disagree with your general point.  I think it would be better stated as your best power tool is still the one between your ears and not on your desktop.  The problem is not the power tool per se, the trouble is that there are people now that do not understand the reason for the power tool.  I agree with you that people starting out need to get it from the basic level.  I still think that my training as a Computer Engineer serves me well writing software.  I started out with logic design, chip design, and began programming from the assembly language level up.  This education gave me an understanding of how computers actually work and then my exposure to various Unix distributions showed me how an operating system should work.  Perhaps the way forward is to stop hiring <span class="caps">CS</span> grads?? *Duck*</p>
<p>In defense of the power tool, Home Improvement was a good comedy, but you are perhaps too young to remember what it was based on.  Home Improvement really was a parody of the old &#8220;This Old House&#8221; program on <span class="caps">PBS</span>.  Tim is Bob Villa and Al is Norm.  The reason why I mention this is that if you ever watch Norm&#8217;s &#8220;New Yankee Workshop&#8221; on <span class="caps">PBS</span> you will notice two distinct things.  First, Norm is an extremely skilled craftsman.  Two, Norm, the real life Al, uses all kinds of Power&nbsp;Tools.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Coding Your Fingers Off - Hand Tools, Power Tools, and Programmers by Chris Hall</title>
		<link>http://www.ericdelabar.com/2008/06/coding-your-fingers-off.html#comment-1276</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Hall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 13:47:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ericdelabar.com/?p=68#comment-1276</guid>
		<description>The right tools make a developer more productive.  Providing shortcuts, automating repetitive tasks, and hiding all of the little nuts and bolts lets them concentrate on getting things done.  And that's what it's all about.

Unfortunately, tools are often used as a crutch.

If you're in the field long enough, you'll run into situations where your standard tool set isn't available.  Maybe you need to make a quick template tweak on a live server, or work on-site as part of a client's team using a tool set you've never seen before. How you handle that is what separates "good" from "good enough".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The right tools make a developer more productive.  Providing shortcuts, automating repetitive tasks, and hiding all of the little nuts and bolts lets them concentrate on getting things done.  And that&#8217;s what it&#8217;s all about.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, tools are often used as a crutch.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re in the field long enough, you&#8217;ll run into situations where your standard tool set isn&#8217;t available.  Maybe you need to make a quick template tweak on a live server, or work on-site as part of a client&#8217;s team using a tool set you&#8217;ve never seen before. How you handle that is what separates &#8220;good&#8221; from &#8220;good&nbsp;enough&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Coding Your Fingers Off - Hand Tools, Power Tools, and Programmers by Eric Wendelin</title>
		<link>http://www.ericdelabar.com/2008/06/coding-your-fingers-off.html#comment-1275</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Wendelin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 16:43:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ericdelabar.com/?p=68#comment-1275</guid>
		<description>I think your solution is perfect and if I'm ever teaching in this decade or the next I will likely force my students to use the CL. There is a certain sort of understanding you acquire when you do things this way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think your solution is perfect and if I&#8217;m ever teaching in this decade or the next I will likely force my students to use the <span class="caps">CL</span>. There is a certain sort of understanding you acquire when you do things this&nbsp;way.</p>
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